I commute between New York and the Bay Area. It is so hard to strike up a meaningful conversation with a stranger out west.
And it’s not just New York. In most big cities, I can reliably find an acquaintance after a few hours at a restaurant, bar or museum. But the Bay Area is so reticent. The closest comparison to it I can think of is the Middle East.
Middle east? Are you out of your mind? Have you been in middle east?
I am from middle east and came to Vancouver 5 months ago and I literally want to go back from this hell hole and although grad school does not pay that much, but because I work a lot I get paid alot by my supervisor too, so I am in good financial situation here. (And I’ve been in some middle east and European countries and have great friends from all of those countries. So it is not like I dont know how to talk to people.)
People are not approachable. Long story short, you can search about Seattle freeze. People literally come to bars and night clubs in groups, and leave with their groups. All of my international friends are under extreme extreme pressure from loneliness. Although they don’t have financial problems, but some of them leaving. I am considering to applying to east coast and unfinishing my degree here.
In Middle East you are definitely not alone. You definitely do not make as much as developed nation. But you are not definitely alone. People are generally way more nicer, easy going. Literally yasterday I saw someguy passed out in Skytrain and there was 40,50 people there. You know what they did? literally nothing. At the end I was the one calling 911. (Not that I am a great person or something, i just call, but it was unbelievable how in western society people live their life.)
I’ve only ever been a foreigner in the Middle East. I trust that, like the Bay Area, insiders have their circles. The commonality is the tendency towards privacy clique sociology.
I was just talking today about how "The Seattle Freeze" would be a fantastic name for an NHL team here. Not that I actually believe in the Seattle Freeze, I just think it would be funny.
This is North American culture in a nutshell and I can't say it's much different in Ontario. I can relate to what you say but unless someone is well travelled or has lived in a different culture for a significant period of time it's hard for them to have perspective or realize why people are so ... standoffish.
It's an individualist culture.
All I can say is I hear ya, but you are preaching to the choir. You likely won't get a lot of acknowledgements here.
Come to Scandinavia if you really want to see an individualistic culture. Striking up a single conversation with a stranger is frowned upon. People going to North America always come back saying everyone was so talkative.
Swedish person living in the netherlands for 12 years and i can only agree. Sweden is a emtionally cold country, and even though we have space that looks like it could invite to social behaviour, make no mistake about it, people will assume that you are after something/trying to mug them if you attempt on only being a tad social. I live in Amsterdam now which is a lot more open to chit-chat, but the Dutch live very much for them selves, are so tired of tourists that you really have to speak fluent Dutch to not be cosidered someone they will never see again.
In SF, I feel people have moved to the city with their own clique that they try to stay within - people will show up to meet their group as part of their evening plans, not to meet new people. They're open to it, but never proactive.
However, the odds improve if you avoid "nice" bars - destination bars are a thing, people show up with their group for a few drinks never intending to visit again. They never socialize so locals go elsewhere.
This is really surprising to me. I live in LA and it's the same as your description of the Bay. And it's hard to me to imagine it any other way. What would these people have to say to me? What could I have to say to them?
Which is a way of suggesting that it does both ways. I don't know how people develop the skills necessary to approach someone they don't know.
I could sit there all day, and no one would say a word to me
They are all too afraid of “offending” you or committing a “microaggression”. A room full of people all desperate to connect but no one will make the first move in case it ends up on Twitter.
My experience (in SF/Oakland for 30+ years) is the same. Trouble is, I've grown so accustomed to it that I probably project the same Bay Area snotty hostility when I visit other places.
Middle East? Certainly not Lebanon. I spent a few months there as a foreigner and making friends was crazily easy, whether it was with locals or other foreigners.
Whenever I was sitting in a bar or cafe, or on a bus, there was always a better than 50% chance someone would strike up a conversation with me - and then follow up with a genuine invitation to meet up again.
I think we’re conditioned to it in San Francisco. The only people who come up to talk to you here are homeless people asking for change, scammers, religious zealots (Scientologists), people canvassing for elections, and people asking you to donate to XYZ cause.
After a certain point you just put up your guard to strangers in public spaces.
Opposite experience for me oddly. People (like, outside of SoMa) are so much more relaxed and not rushed. Open to a conversation and not really in a hurry to be anywhere.
I found it tough to find spots like that anywhere in NYC.
Foreigner. If you sit in a social setting in Dubai or Riyadh or Jordan, you’ll be left alone. All day. Sort of like the Bay Area. Anywhere else, somebody will say hi.
Middle Easterners are even more so, but probably not to foreigners as much. (although in parts of Turkey and Iran even the people living in villages will welcome you into their homes)
Ever noticed why true homelessness is so low in middle eastern countries? The "homeless" there often are people with homes who just don't go there at night.
And it’s not just New York. In most big cities, I can reliably find an acquaintance after a few hours at a restaurant, bar or museum. But the Bay Area is so reticent. The closest comparison to it I can think of is the Middle East.