The wheels on this device are smaller than I'd feel safe riding on. Small rocks can stop a skateboard, and when they do, it is much better to be perpendicular rather than facing forward when stopped abruptly. I remember goofing off riding on a board facing forward, and every time the board stopped abruptly, I would fall face forward. Unrelated, they could have picked better music for the video.
Small rocks etc. is one thing, but going around a city there's so many manmade obstacles as well. Every sidewalk curb, cobblestone, pothole, with this thing you have to stop, bend down and pick it up, walk a step or two, put it down and resume. At least on a skateboard/longboard you can kick it up and throw it down again, or even just ollie shit.
China is churning out cheap mini-segways that are not much bigger and have larger pneumatic tires. This is just the first one I found on ebay for $370 (including shipping):
There are a few companies offering designs with only a single larger wheel which should be a bit better still on rough ground. What could be neat is if they could fit all electronics inside the wheel itself.
I skateboard to/from work every day except when there's snow, and have done so for years in several cities around Europe, including London. And let me tell you: major cities, with London as an extreme example, will never be skateboard friendly. I will pay for my skateboarding habit with my knees when I get old. Some places have even started adding these ridges in the sidewalk that are there to help blind people find their way to bus stops, pedestrian crossings etc, and those are absolute killers.
No, even if adoption of various segway-clones suddenly flies through the roof, the roads won't be good in the growth phase so everyone will buy the models with big air-filled wheels, and thus there's no incentive for improving sidewalks.
It's unfortunate that we have such restrictive and inconsistent rules around the place concerning these light electric vehicles. I realize that electric bikes really push the motorbike-bike line, but this stuff is being invented and experimented on at a clip and it's hard to figure out the best form factors when the rules are all defined around what was available and popular at some point.
And, it's important to advance... All these little electric vehicles are potentially really helpful. No emissions, low energy, far less infrastructure than cars and trains. All the segway fantasies could actually come true, in some form as these things improve. They just need to keep improving the battery tech and let these guys experiment with form factor.
Here's my request for the V2: double the size and design it to be used sitting in the lotus position. It'd be a flying carpet... that flies really low.
Imagine two of these colliding head on in a mall or campus. Potential 15mph head banger. Definitely dangerous and maybe fatal. That's why these rules are proliferating. Fact is the radius in which any of these motorised mobility aids is safe is much larger than that of a pedestrian. Our legs, torsos are very strong, with dozens of muscles wired directly to our brains for minimum latency, so we can stop or dodge essentially instantly. These tools are therefore appropriate only in less densely travelled areas (factories, warehouses, etc) or on special pathways with strict traffic rules.
at 10 km/h (3 meters/second, 4-5 times faster than the average walking speed), it's plausible that you could to fall off, hit your head on the pavement and... die, yes.
How fast do you normally walk? 3m/s divided by five is around 60cm/s or about 2 km/h, that's pretty slow. I walk at around 5 mph or 8 km/h, although that is a little faster than most. I think average walking speed is normally about 5 km/h so this is really only twice walking speed at best...
The "double speed" interpretation of a head-on impact is incorrect. The physics don't work out that way unless one of the people has far more mass (like so much mass that they aren't using this board anyway). Two people colliding head on while moving at 6.2mph is not at all like, e.g., one stationary person getting hit by a car moving at 12.4mph. It's much more similar to getting hit by a car at 6.2mph, or jogging into a tree at 6.2mph, both of which could kill you, but neither of which likely will.
You shouldn't be getting downvoted - you're right. Doubling your speed against a brick wall quadruples the energy involved in the collision, but two equivalent objects colliding at the original speed only doubles it. If they have the same or similar mass, the energy is absorbed equally by both, and so if two equal-sized people run into each other at 10 kph, each one of them will feel an impact equivalent to running into a brick wall at 10 kph, not 20 kph.
One question is, how fast would they have to be to be useful? Is a speed of 3-5 km/h or even slower already fine? (Maybe for people who cannot walk far due to sickness or age?)
The simple solution is to eliminate street parking and use it for all the other better alternatives for driving. Most of the rules are there because of how incredibly dangerous cars and trucks are.
I don't understand who this is for. To be able to remain balanced on a small patch of ground that can zip around in any direction under your feet with no handholds requires MORE balance than ordinary walking. That means that almost anyone who could safely use this would have to be healthy enough to walk normally. Walking is almost as fast, vastly more flexible, convenient, reliable, cheap....
Yes, it's more tiring, but someone who could safely use one of these could also safely cruise around on a scooter with larger wheels and a handle for much higher speed, much lower cost, more stability, no fear of running out of power, better handling over uneven surfaces, etc.
The people who need powered transportation on walkways tend to be those with limited personal mobility, and most of them would be at great risk balanced on one of these things. They need something stable to sit on, not something unstable to stand on.
The best market I can think of for these things is relatively young, healthy workers gliding around the smooth floor of a very large warehouse all day long carrying small objects. But that's not how they seem to be positioning this thing, and most of those jobs will be robotized, because the little warehouse scooter doesn't really need the person.
10kph is twice as fast as typical walking speed. I can see using one of these to go to and from the train station on my commute - you can't take a scooter on the train, but something that fits in a backpack is would be fine.
Yes, as netcan says, make it large enough to sit on. But kneeling is safer than lotus position, because it's easy to transition from there to walking. And it's a standard Japanese seat style.[0]
At lower speeds would it be much different to a moving walkway? As for use cases these would be unlimited! I imagine 10km/ph is as fast as a taxi would average in a busy downtown
You can put your legs in a wider stance on a moving walkway. Furthermore, if the walkway happens to stutter, the rest of the walkway's speed isn't significantly different from the speed of the patch you're standing on.
Cool toy but seems gimmicky. The research just keeps piling up about how sitting at our desks all day is terrible for our health... That we need to get up and walk and move, the exact thing this product seems to be trying to outsource. Too bad we evolved to move about our environments using our legs, instead of stay immobile in a dark swampy cave with bio-luminescent algae interfaces.
It was gimmicky for me until it showed him walking with his mom. My grandmother used to love going for walks but now gets too tired too fast. I'm not saying I'd buy one of these just for that use case, but that's the moment that made me see realistic applications. Could work well with a "granny grocery cart", extending the time a person can stay independent as they age without being as cumbersome as a wheelchair.
A few of us at my work bought some similar type devices, but with two wheel, like a mini-segway. They are definately more of a toy -- they're a lot of fun to ride around on but not that appropriate for day to day transport. They're actually very stable and intuitive and very easy to get on and off. The learning curve is < 60 seconds. The big issue is that with the small hard wheels small bumps cause it to lurch and can throw you off face first. Had someone with a minor wrist sprain and a fractured elbow basically hitting small bumps and falling off. Would surely not want my grandma using one.
The lack of movement causes bone degeneration. In the majority of broken hip cases, the hip breaks AND THEN the person falls. What your grandmother needs is to do squats and have mild but abrupt force applied to her bones.
My thought, exactly. This model obviously isn't suitable, but with a rapidly aging population here in Japan (and elsewhere), I'm glad to see new(-ish) innovation being made.
Once the tech is there, the need will drive the eventual designs.
Between this, electric skateboards and scooters, and the half dozen other devices I've seen popping up - every day we're inching farther along a trajectory to Wall-E status. These devices are inherently anti-walking and anti-exercise (contrasted to, say, a car, which can be used as such, but also provides utility far beyond what walking can accomplish).
Cars are infinitely more anti-walking, inasmuch as they require the creation of non-walkable environments (and, correspondingly, the elimination of walkable environments). These, in contrast, can easily coexist with walking.
I would argue that the typical Japanese consumer walks much more than in the US. Thus, I imagine users would augment their current walking routines. Getting around in a large metropolitan area is the problem, but how you do it can vary. walk+bike, walk+train, cooltoy+walk+train, etc.
Nothing is stopping you from being active with purpose. Go to the gym, run, bike, etc. I currently own a solowheel and it's been a lifesaver. I'd just be taking transit otherwise, I'd say doing this over transit is better for you.
That's true, but humans are generally creatures of convenience and follow the path of least resistance. Today people are forced to walk in many situations where they have no feasible alternative (can't afford it, transit doesn't go there, etc). It seems pretty evident that, on the whole, the proliferation of these devices will contribute to less exercise and more obesity.
I, for example, love walking - on average 15k steps a day. But some days I simply don't have the time. Or I have so many errands to do that I can spend over 4 hours to get everywhere unless I use a cab or public transport.
That's why I just got myself onewheel (still on the way to me). I expect it to be faster than any other mean of a transportation.
Rather than something for me to ride, I'd rather have something that I can toss things onto, that would follow behind me (like Tensor's Floating Disc).
For heavy load, they have wild cat[wildcat] and for lighter loads, they have spot [spot]. For Ussain Bolt, there is the cheetah [cheetah] that can keep up with the pace peaking at over 29 miles per hour. All these are at various stages in development and as far as I understand not ready for production.
I'd be super worried riding this in anything other than a smooth indoor environment, as it looks like the smallest chunk of gravel could send you flying.
But I think the non-self-balancing but still weight-sensing control scheme has a lot of promise (I've built a few of theses myself: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=49557...). I've found segway-style vehicles really twitchy to ride (since they'll literally tip over if they don't react quickly and forcefully enough), whereas basic weight sensing control is super intuitive (much more so than, say, the hand control on the Boosted boards).
Is it possible that the front wheels being powered could climb up a small stone, unlike a skateboard that is kind of pushed horizontally into it by momentum?
I love watching tourists crash on those things here in Barcelona ;P. I see them as being too unbalanced, compared to the small scooter bikes that are being rented as well [1]. I see the similar thing with these "platforms". The wheels almost reminds me office chairs :), and i know how bad the sidewalks are for example, not to mention holes and other objects.
>> And how we all thought of it as the new way of human transportation?
>No, I don't remember that bit.
I remember my American born English teacher back then really thinking that. I also read later years later somebody who explained that phenomenon as a reaction to 9/11, as a way for Americans to think about good news and a better future.
Mandatory quote from Paul Graham. He says they've received too much money too early, which didn't require them to work iteratively and deal with adoption, as a consequence people look like a dork on a Seagway.
So twice normal walking speed is good. I can walk at 10 kmph, and I can walk 12 km. But I can't walk 12 km at 10 kmph. However, I can't imagine that I could balance on such a small, short platform, moving at 10 kmph. Even on a smooth surface. And the shape seems wrong. I'd be far more comfortable on a board. Sideways is cool, but only when leaning backward. Catching an edge is so not fun.
Unlike skateboards, the four wheels on this platform make almost a square. There's a chance that it can handle pot holes better, since three wheels will still be enough. But yeah, I share your feelings about edges.
Is it as cheap as these[1] mass produced mini segways that have become popular? The linked products also have a range of 8 miles and a top speed of more than 9mph.
This is the same device being sold by iohawk and Phunkee Duck for over $1,500. Phunkee Duck managed to get celebrities to use them and people are spending a fortune although it is the identical product!
They are available directly from the original manufacturer in china via alibaba [1] or aliexpress for around $150-$300.
One practical if very niche use I could see for this would be doing steady shots when filming. I don't think it would let you do anything new but it might make doing some types of shots easier.
In Brussels you can rent bikes from public transport at numerous stations in the city. Either be a registered citizen or allow them to put 150€ on hold on your credit card (and pay 1.60€ per day as long as no ride is longer than (I think) half an hour). It's easy to use and popular, so I don't think it'd be a problem.
Based on its design, I can't imagine it going very far or very fast. The appear (what there was) of the Segway is that it will allow a normal human to go much further, much faster than would be possible by walking. And without breaking a sweat.
With the tiny wheels, I'd think it would be a rough ride anywhere near where I live... with the uneven sidewalks and other transitions needed.
You can't stop fast with that thing, except by jumping off. See the video at 0:50. Jump off or face-plant, those are the options. Riders need basic skateboarding skills to use this thing, but skateboarders will be bored by it.
The Segway can stop fast without a face plant. That's what makes it usable.
The BPG Motors transforming motorcycle[1], with both a Segway form and a motorcycle form, seemed to be a really good concept four years ago. They demoed, then the product disappeared. They've come out with a two-tracked off-road standup ATV (the "Shredder"), but it's not for urban use.
I believe this will be most awesome on tradeshows or on large company premises.
I'd be interested to see how it can deal with gravel, rain, wind and what happens when you encounter that small step that is just a tad bit higher than the device can take.
Seems incomplete. Surely one would want simple foot controls to allow stopping without having to jump off. Or even moderate speed control.
Also having recently seen first hand how much losing ones mobility to illness, this could be a really great product for older people if it were modified into a walker that carried you. Also if it were setup as a walker for the elderly basic hand controls could be added.
Very interesting product I all be very interest to see how this develops and improves with an iteration or two.
There are parts of the video where he slows down and speeds up. Tilting forwards and backwards, maybe? I think the jumping off feature is being demonstrated more as a safety system, rather the main way you control the speed.
I cant seem to get into this idea. First if I were to ride this in NYC I would probably be on my face with the 2 inch wheels stuck in the subway grates or in a pot whole. Some may say "Well skate boards have small wheels" this devices wheels are smaller, and you don’t have the momentum from peddling to get you over the bumps. And also its plain awkward without being "cool", like an electric mountain board.
I would get one of these for living in SF. It would make lots of otherwise unwalkable neighborhoods perfectly accessible while only using it to go uphill.
Alternatively just walk those neighborhoods and they won't feel unwalkable very shortly! My 89 year old grandmother used to walk from her house in Japantown to Chrissy Field and back, regularly--your legs get used to it and suddenly the city feels a lot more accessible.
Many of these are marketed online totally forgetting legal status. Meaning that you can drive these only in closed areas. Using on public road is illegal.
Only devices legal are electrically assisted cycle or electric registered scooters.
Btw. Segways should become legal in Finland in 2016 what kind of registration and insurances might be required isn't yet exactly known.
When I saw the segway, I thought it was way weird and didn't like it. When I saw this, I was a little excited about it. Funny how a small change in design makes it seem cooler to me.
To the people worried about the gravel, since this guy is traveling over brick side walks in the video (see 44 seconds in) I think it will do just fine on normal side walks.
Its great to see so many new approaches. I'm the last person to know which will catch on, but with all this variety we're likely to converge on the right device.
The expensive lesson of the Segway: people don't want to look like a dork. It's hard to quantify exactly but only mall cops look natural on a Segway.
I want one of these so bad. The two wheel self balancing boards that are popping right now are so cool and this looks way cooler.
That said, the current ones are heavy as hell because they are all battery, I'm interested to know what the deal is with capacity / weight for this one.
i think a lot of power gets wasted on self balancing. this things balancing gets taken care of by the four wheels and frees the battery into pure propulsion. also maybe it can recharge on downhill slopes, something a self balancer cant do.
I suppose it isn't too surprising they don't have any clip longer than 10 seconds in that video.
Lets guess that it is going 1.5m/s (a bit more than 5km/hr or 3.3 mph which is a brisk walking speed). And lets assume the typical rider is 75kg (about 165 lbs). that takes about a kW to get up to speed but you only need it once you get to speed and it looks like it gets there quickly so over 3 seconds or so, figure a 3k watt-seconds. Then driving along you're probably at 1/4 (really efficient) to 1/2 (more typical) power covering rolling friction. (more if you are going up hill [sin(grade) * mass]) so in that size "plate" you can get maybe 10Wh of battery? That puts run times in the 60 - 70 seconds range. Followed by a 30 - 90 minute charge cycle (depending on how aggressive you can be)
I love the form factor and the concept, but we just don't have energy density in our batteries yet AFAICT.
Even though it looks tiny and so lightweight (it’s made of aluminum), it can easily carry 120kg and you can travel at max speed of 10 kmph for at least 12 km. After that you’ll probably need a re-charge, and apparently it’ll take 3 hours for that.
Essentially, you're saying they are flat-out lying.
I was just working backwards from the physics, one of the things I've done in the past if build battlebots, and one of the interesting thing about those machines, typically ~100kg weight limit, is figuring out how long you can run them so they will last 5 minutes in the ring but you aren't carrying any extra weight in batteries.
So from the article you have two things, you have 10mph for 12km (that is 1.2 hours of driving) and a recharge time of 90 minutes (1.5hrs) Batteries charge at a rate called 'C' (their capacity) so a battery that charges at 2C means that it can charge (accept current) twice as fast as its rated capacity. They need at least 500W (2/3hp approximately) to move a vertical human at 10kph. And they do that for 1.2 hours? so 600Watt-hours. Assuming your battery is driving brushless motors with a 48V working voltage that is 12.5 Amp hours net, so at 85% efficiency (good batteries) that is a 15 amp-hour, 48V battery. (or four 12V 15Ah batteries wired in series).
So yeah, the physics doesn't work for me on their specs. I would love to learn how the do that differently and get that much energy into such a small and light package. That would help me make a more competitive battle bot (lots of energy left over for weapons like spinners and what not.)
As a youngster I rode a unicycle ... Now I want one of the self.balancing motorized ones. The "transportation" device described in this article is totally unappealing compared to both powered and unpowered skateboards.
It's true, it looks to be better in every respect (especially price). The only downside to the Chinese electric unicycle is the size (the Japanese one fits in a backpack).
I suspect that what's more likely to happen is that the board will wedge in a hole, stop moving, and you'll simply find yourself stepping forwards off it.
The standing posture means that you're braced for a step anyway, and the speed is totally compatible with your mark I human undercarriage system. It's not like you're on a skateboard going at 30kph. Plus you're not fastened into it.
I actually think it's a really interesting and subtle piece of design. I want one. (Plus I have to admire anything that looks quite that stupid.)
Agreed. As a 20 year+ street skateboarder, I can tell you that even with larger and softer urethane (85-90A) wheels, a pebble the size of a tic tac will send you to ground rapidly.
The key is to over time develop skills of controlling weight on your board. I suppose this design could be modified some, but more likely that the driver/rider will need to learn some skills from skateboarders :)
I have a piece of titanium in my orbital bone from when I ran over a little rock when inline skating. If this thing hits a rock you'll go flying. Really hard.
In the video he does run on tiled stones even and over a small gap, see 0:39 to 0:49. It looks like he's not struggling but it's such a closeup that you cannot see if he lost balance or not afterwards. I'm still very skeptical though, that gap would be quite hard to cross on a skateboard without a small jump and on a skateboard your center of gravity is almost 2 feet further back than on this thing. Maybe the propulsion in the wheels help.
No speed control? That is critical - when walking in a crowd, we change speed and direction constantly to respond to opportunities. Without speed control, this thing can only work on open ground.
What is up with all of these new motorized transportation things? They seem to be coming all out of the woodworks lately. Gone are the days of walking, seemingly.
cool concept. Put handle on it like a scooter and my Mom got a new way to get around. Oh wait, clearly, I wasn't thinking big enough. Add self-steering with collision avoidance on this deck and now you can stare at your phone the entire way from the train to the office. Google, are you listening?
