Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | programjames's commentslogin

The standard can be, "don't utter words with the intent of spurring others onto antisocial actions."


Who decides whether or not there was intent behind your words?

What do we do when people disagree about the intent behind a word?

Who decides what is antisocial?

What do we do when people disagree about what is antisocial?

I don't believe there are neat clean answers to any of these. The closest we'll get will involve mutual respect, assumption of good faith, and dialogue. We can't have any of that if our starting point is, "I believe your words are secretly not what you say they are" or "I will hold you responsible for anything bad that anyone does that might be tenuously connected to your words"


Yes, people can always claim that wasn't their intent, but what you see quite often nowadays is people openly saying their intent is to get people to take action. "I wouldn't personally... but I have massive respect for those who do. We need more people with the balls to do something about it."

This is probably less restrictive than you are advocating for in your previous comment: as long as there is plausible deniability, the speech goes free.


Where is the "tab" autocomplete?


or ctrl+r to bring up fzf history


This! Who types full commands?


I skimmed through the book, and it's lacking the information theory foundations. For example, "trust region methods" come from maximizing the policy's relative entropy (to a reference policy) under a tournament system where high-scoring agents are exponentially likely to survive. In general, a reward is the negative bits it costs an environment to propagate an agent (multiplied by some temperature).


Do you have a good source on this information theory framing? I don't remember it being covered in Sutton & Barto.


It's just another way to frame it. It's as foundational as the many other ways to frame it. I'm not aware of any major insight you get specifically from this framing. Is there one?


Standard Intelligence released one two years ago:

https://si.inc/posts/hertz-dev/

It's only 8.5B and doesn't sound like it's quite conversational.


Didn't Standard Intelligence release a duplex model two years ago? Sounds disingenuous to market this as a new generation of voice models, when it is really OpenAI finally catching up to the current generation after two years.

https://si.inc/posts/hertz-dev/


Logicians' training is so different from philosophers' that it should be considered a separate discipline, or under the branch of computer science.


When I was a young man I took three philosophy courses from a very old man who, when he was a young man, was the dissertation director of Alan Turing. The latter, by the way, was an habitué of the seminar of Wittgenstein.


The appearance of a logical argument is easier to achieve and often good enough for their purposes (publishing papers, winning lawsuits).


Connections are far more important IMO. The opinion itself is there for the plebs so they don't revolt when the high-IQ trickery flagrantly mismatches the plain language of the constitution. The courts are really the main thing nowadays that can provide legitimacy to the acts of the state since it doesn't follow the people or the documents authorizing it.


Nondeterminism is also a feature, not a bug. If you don't want people to optimize against your filtering process, you have to make it somewhat nondeterministic. For example, better candidates are exponentially more likely to pass the filter, instead of a hard cut-off at the top-100. Then it becomes no longer worthwhile to Goodhart the filtering process, because it barely increases your chances and there are so many more places you can use your time better.


> If you don't want people to optimize against your filtering process, you have to make it somewhat nondeterministic.

I'm sorry, I'm not following this at all. When you say "better candidates are exponentially more likely to pass the filter", we're still are talking about a metric, yes? A metric that can be optimized? Why would switching from a hard cutoff to some sort of stochastic filter weighted by this metric discourage optimization?


Optimizing for the metric involves:

1. Optimizing for generally applicable skills that the metric is trying to measure.

2. Optimizing adversarially to hill-climb the metric.

You want candidates to do (1) and not (2). You can make them agnostic to the second by setting

    d(expected gain)/d(opportunity cost) = 0
      ==>
    expected gain \propto opportunity cost
It is the case that most metrics are logarithmic: it takes just as much effort to decrease one bit of error as the next bit. So

    log(score) \propto (opportunity cost) \propto expected gain
Thus, for them to be agnostic, you should filter candidates proportional to their log-score on the metric (where 0 is a perfect score). Because generally applicable skills are generally applicable, they will still benefit from improving those, they just no longer benefit from adversarial optimization, unless your score function looks very similar to others who have not adopted this filtering process.

The issue with a hard cutoff is that people near the boundary are extremely incentivized to adversarially optimize, as it is usually cheaper than working on generally applicable skills and actually pays off for them. You see this phenomenon on AoPS where (esp. Californian) students talk about grinding for MATHCOUNTS instead of learning calculus.


1.0 is "natural units". If your energy corresponds to nats, you should be using temperature 1.0. If your energy corresponds to bits, you should be using temperature ln(2) ~= 0.7. The optimization pressure is

     max nats = max entropy + energy / temperature

Why might energy correspond to bits or nats? Imagine your goal is to play as many interesting games of chess as possible in a tournament. This implies you have to keep winning. If you look at the RL environment from the right perspective, you can turn it into optimizing bits or nats.


That is very unlikely due to Solomonoff induction...


Solomonoff induction doesn’t concern itself with what is truth and reality. It just says which theory to prefer and how to determine so objectively when multiple are equally precise in making predictions of observations. It’s a formal description of Occam’s razor.

OPs argument is that reality is expressed by very complex equations and interactions; by definition this is outside of Solomonoff induction because it’s easy to imagine this accurate model by definition is the shortest algorithmic explanation, it’s just orders of magnitude more complex than our current approximations.


You should include the error correction code length in the description length. This means Newtonian mechanics was a much longer theory to describe Mercury's orbit than general relativity. It was only the shorter theory before they had the data showing a discrepancy. Which is the correct approach to describing your reality, because until you see a discrepancy, the extensional properties all follow the shorter rules.

I guess the argument from OP would look like: "Yes, now imagine we poke and extend our universe as far as we can. How much bigger do you think our final 'shortest description' would be? I imagine it may be orders of magnitude more complex."

Well, I can imagine a squared circle... doesn't mean the math checks out. I would reply that you do not have to imagine, you can go about looking at different mathematically possible universes in Tegmark IV and find the expected number of bits for the one you actually exist in. Which is ~0 bits more complex than the shortest description based on the data you currently have.

Also, note that Newtonian mechanics is not actually a very short theory for building a universe, because you have to instantiate every object in the universe. You actually get a lot more of the structure for free with general relativity (re: Wigner's classification of the particles). An observer in a presumed-Newtonian universe calling it a simple theory would be like saying, "I compressed Wikipedia to one byte, just by putting it all in the decompiler!"


Consider applying for YC's Fall 2026 batch! Applications are open till July 27.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: